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FOLDING AA/KK TO A SET. CAN AND SHOULD IT BE DONE?

 

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John_Bender AU John_Bender Enthusiast
Posts: 559 		 

Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 4, 2008 01:47 PM. Post 1
Recently, I had 23K in chips UTG with KK. Raised to 2400 with blinds at 400/800. UTG2 calls and BB calls.

The flop came T84. I bet 4800 about half the pot. UTG2 flats. BB folds.

This leaves me with about 16K and a 15k pot. Turn is a J.

Does anyone not push all in here?
Is it possible to put the flatter on a set?

Is it -EV to check/fold, check/call in this spot after the turn?

Discuss.
 
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sartan11 AU sartan11 Member
Posts: 18 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 4, 2008 08:50 PM. Post 2
Hi, I had Pocket Aces. UTG(small stack) raises all in., I reraise . 1 caller
flop K. Rag. K.
Big raise from small blind. I fold.
you guessed it, set K'

no further aces on board 3k beat pocket 10's
 
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BUGZ-E AU BUGZ-E Senior member
Posts: 3905 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 01:53 AM. Post 3
so let me guess...

you then bet 5k again, he went all in, you called, he had the trip js?!
 
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0flushgordon DE 0flushgordon Senior member
Posts: 1390 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 02:18 AM. Post 4
tough spot, I would decide depending on my reads on him.
Does he plays passive or agg, loose or tight?
What is his calling range?

Then it is interesting to know in which tournament this was.

If I had no read at all, i would tend to push here.
I don't like c/c or c/r cause there are too good draws out there, a free card could be dangerous here.
 
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marsvolta77 AU marsvolta77 Senior member
Posts: 735 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 02:35 AM. Post 5
reads would help.

T84 is pretty dry.
Villain could be calling with anything from 66-JJ (for QQ+ he'd have to be super passive to not reraise pf)
...and you can include J9, T8, 98 or Tx if hes quite loose.

I think check/calling (reraising all-in) has a lot of value as he wont have many draws on this board and will often try and take it down with whatever hand (which is often worse than your KK) that he called your cbet with.

But no, im not check/folding unless I have a pretty good read... and you haven't given any.
 
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0flushgordon DE 0flushgordon Senior member
Posts: 1390 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 02:40 AM. Post 6
We're already on the turn and the board is T84J so there are some draws on that board, mars wink
 
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marsvolta77 AU marsvolta77 Senior member
Posts: 735 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 02:51 AM. Post 7
The only draw that makes sense from a Taggish player here is 99.

If he's loose enough to have more draws (or hands) then thats even more of a reason to not even conceive folding turn. Shove your stack in.
i.e. if he's not a TAG then we should be fist pump shoving this, as he'll have a range that we're way ahead of on this turn.

If we're playing a standard tight player, it does suck if 99 gets to take a free card from us checking, but if he's the type of player to float flop and then bet with the majority of his range then check/calling isnt too bad.
(i.e. we get value from 66-77, Tx)
 
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micky d10 GB micky d10 Senior member
Posts: 170 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 05:19 AM. Post 8
Does UTG2 have a bigger stack than you?

It is pretty unlikely i would be shoving here. You just end up missing out on so much value by doing that. I almost certainly check shove with no reads.
 
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John_Bender AU John_Bender Enthusiast
Posts: 559 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Oct 5, 2008 11:45 AM. Post 9
We both had 30BBs. I remember reading in Doyle Brunson's super system to never fold a big pair AA/KK on a harmless flop in a tournament. I think his words were 'if they have a set, then more power to them'. Not sure how many BBs he's willing to stack off on the situation. It's an interesting point considering that Brunson is a legend of the game.

I had no reads at all on the guy, just moved table. I couldn't put the guy on a set as I expected a reraise on a flop that had two spades. My initial thought after his flop call was that he was loose/passive playing an ATs type hand or a pocket pair <TT pair that had missed the flop and he wasn't believing my strength.
 
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Bodhidharma4 GB Bodhidharma4 Member
Posts: 557 		 

RE: Folding AA/KK to a set. Can and should it be done?

Nov 5, 2008 06:15 PM. Post 10
Had he have pushed you all in i may have hesitated, but 9 times out of ten probably would have called anyway. With him just calling i would definately have pushed to take his odds away in case he was drawing. If you check it gives him the opportunity to bluff you off it. As brunson says. If he's got a concealed set, i'll just have to go ahead and pay him off.
 
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